Juju in the dock

3:30:46 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Outside the courthouse, Malema tells the crowd of supporters that the song never promoted any killings, that even when it was sung during the Struggle, it did not incite people to kill.

He says that the legacy of apartheid still exists and must be ended.

Malema thanks his supporters and in particularly “Mama Winnie,” who understands the importance of the song in the struggle and the struggle against inequality.

The youth league leader commends the crowd for its discipline despite the presence of agent provocateurs. He says some people were arrested by people bearing arms and a fake police card.

He calls on people to come out at the elections to defeat the DA and also to defeat the media of South Africa. He says the media has made itself an opposition because it opposes the ANC.

He tells the crowds every corner of South Africa must be ruled by the ANC because it is a democratic organisation. “The solutions to the problems confronted by the people of South Africa lies with the ANC,” he says, adding that only the ANC can provide a better life for all.

Back to the issue of the media, Malema says the South African media is full of lies and political agendas, that only the SABC can be trusted and even then, just a little bit.

He warns the crowd not to trust eNews, saying they were only allowed here because it was necessary. As he calls on the crowd not to watch eNews, the transmission abruptly ends.

And it looks like that’s it until we reconvene for closing arguments in two to three weeks.

2:25:35 pm - Thu 21 Apr

And it’s a wrap! For today at least. The case has been wrapped up rather abruptly. Lamont says he’ll keep us posted on the judgement.

2:17:01 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis gets Malema to admit that if not singing the song would sav one life, it would be worth it. He ends his examination.

Maleka opts to close the case for Malema.

Brassy asks for a written record, though it would be costly and says that two days of arguments would be enough.

Lamont says he may need to hear out the amicus, the Vereeniging vir Afrikaans Regslui.

12:55:32 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis tries to question Malema about his armed bodyguards but Malema says he will not talk on this issue. He says there are people who have been going around with fake police cards intimidating his people.

Lamont says they do not need to get into this debate here. He says there has been a bodyguard in the vicinity, called by Du Plessis for a client, that there are police that were not known to others in the court, and that there were security guards around the court as well.

Du Plessis says there has not been equal access to the court for his clients, as opposed to Malema. Lamont says he has tried to intervene to prevent this and that there was no real discussion, except for one, on this matter with Du Plessis.

“We don’t need to get embroiled in a side issue,” says Lamont.

He says the perception is that if you are surrounded by people bearing arms, then you are associated with arms.

Malema disagrees saying that he has never associated people who were protected by people bearing arms as being violent.

Du Plessis asks if Malema has told people not to be afraid of him, and Malema says yes, he’s made it clear that the song is a struggle song and not a song for inciting violence.

12:48:13 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Malema says that Mandela was also perceived to be someone who was used by the elders in the party. “President Mandela became a world leader and the greatest icon today,” he says.

Du Plessis asks him not to make political statements in court but to answer the question, which is that he is used to make certain policy statements but Malema says it is not him, it is the organisation.

12:44:37 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis: You want to be radical

Malema: I lead a radical organisation … I want to economic freedom in my lifetime.

Du Plessis say Malema wants to be recognised for his work but Malema says he’s not here for recognition.

Malema speaks about the history of the ANC. “We are the champions of the constitution,” he says. “We made it possible for you to sit with blacks on this bench. We have freed you … We sit here as equals without looking down on each other.”

Malema says courts are preoccupied with other issues and that this is a societal issue, which does not actually belong in court.

Du Plessis says Tau-SA is not targeting Malema but the singing of the song. Malema says Du Plessis’s case is different from AfriForum’s.

Du Plessis now wandering towards some kind of point, asks why the ANC does not bring the policy issues that Malema has.

“I put it to you Mr Malema that you’re being used by the ANC,” says Du Plessis. “You are prepared to put issues on the table that they are too scared to.”

Malema says if that’s the case, he’s happy to be used. “I’m a foot-soldier of the African National Congress,” he says.

12:35:14 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis is now talking about the definition of genocide and examples thereof, including the Rwanda genocide in which members of the minority were referred to as cockroaches.

He asks what Malema meant when he called Helen Zille a cockroach. Malema says she called him something first and nobody would have minded if he’d called her a lion, for example.

Du Plessis continues to define genocide. Malema looks bored.

Du Plessis says that farm murders are seen by the Afrikaaner community as boer genocide.

Malema says he’d like to see people discuss how many farm workers are killed.

Du Plessis says a person on a farm is 700 times more likely to be murdered than anybody else, and that the reason for this is to intimidate farmers to give up their land.

Malema says that farm workers are also being killed by farmers and their bosses and that if, as Du Plessis says, a delegation from overseas is coming to investigate farm killings, they should investigate the killing of farm workers as well.

Du Plessis moves on swiftly.

12:28:39 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis says that the exact lyrics and various aspects were not made clear to the court, and that ANC witnesses have been making it up as they go along. But Lamont says this was discussed.

Du Plessis says that singing and chanting is not in Afrikaaner culture. Malema responds that at the trial of the accused in Eugene Terre’Blanche’s death he saw people singing Die Stem and waving the old South African flag.

“I just saw people who belong to the past, refusing change,” says Malema, adding that he wasn’t happy at seeing this.

“You weren’t happy and they weren’t even singing about killing you,” Du Plessis responds.

Du Plessis now showing Malema up on his history regarding when Apartheid began, says Malema might be under misconception that the waving of the old SA flag might have to do with 1925 when the flag was introduced and not necessarily the apartheid regime.

Malema is amused.

Du Plessis says that the intention in waving the flag may differ. Lamont says Du Plessis is making a different point, in a different context, asks him to move on.

12:21:02 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis and Malema now arguing about whether he used hand gestures to indicate a gun and made the shooting sounds “prrr-pah” when singing the song at the University of Johannesburg.

Malema says this aspect is part of a chant, not part of the song.

12:18:39 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Back onto the issue of transforming the judiciary. Du Plessis says that anybody who doesn’t agree with the ANC should not be in the judiciary. But Malema says no, anybody who is not prepared to serve a democratic South Africa should be excluded from the judiciary.

Du Plessis and Malema now arguing about whether he sang kill the boer, shoot the boer or injure the boer. Du Plessis says when he says these things he’s referring to the same song. Malema says he didn’t sing any of these, he sang Dubula iBhunu.

“Taking the land and singing Dubula iBhunu are different things,” says Malema.

Du Plessis says this court case is about the context in which the song is sung, the judge must test what Tau-SA’s clients think when Malema sings the song and makes political statements about taking farms.

Malema says that in Zulu the words for “boer” and “farmer” are different. The word for farmer is “umlimi” and when he sings the song in question, he is not singing “dubula umlimi”. At this point Malema sings the song with the lyrics “umlimi” instead of “ibhunu”. He says if a farmer who hears the song understands Zulu, he would understand that difference.

12:09:18 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis says anyone who sits on a farm would be alarmed by this and by the idea that they might be harmed.

“What are you saying about those who were harmed when they took the land? What are you saying about those who are living in this land with no access to land … What are you saying about people who were forcibly removed from their land? What are you saying?” asks Malema.

He says the section of the Constitution that says people should be paid for their land needs to be amended through democratic means. Government has accepted that the willing buyer, willing seller policy has failed.

Malema says the Constitution should be amended so that when the act is passed to change this, it will not be unconstitutional.

“The time has come where we need to re-look into the compromises that we have made, and we are calling everyone to make a contribution,” he says.

12:05:40 pm - Thu 21 Apr

“Tell me about one real democratic state where people went in and took people’s land without paying them,” Du Plessis asks.

“Zimbabwe,” says Malema.

“Zimbabwe is a real democracy?”

“They’ve been holding a elections every five years,” says Malema, and they’ve been electing Mugabe every year.

12:03:55 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis asks whether state representative should drive around removing white families from their land. Malema says white families should appreciate that the land they are on must be utilised by the country.

“That’s what Mr Mugabe has done,” says Du Plessis.

“He has done that but the method was wrong .. If it is in the public interest, we shouldn’t apologise about it.”

So the land that has not been utilised by the communities to which it was redistributed should also be taken, asks Du Plessis.

Malema says people would be happy to hear that government wants to use the land.

Lamont interjects to ask about Du Plessis’s figures on who owns what percentage of land in the country. Du Plessis clarifies that no distinction is made in the figures between land that is usable and productive, and unusable land.

12:00:32 pm - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis directs the court’s attention to research on land reform done by the Development Bank of South Africa and presented to the department of agriculture.

Malema says he will not assume the figures presented are correct. “I’m not going to assume because assumptions can  be very dangerous,” he says. People conduct research to arrive at particular conclusions. Some research cannot be used as an authority. He says Du Plessis has no mandate to use the research of the DBSA’s research.

Du Plessis says that if you look at the surface area of land owned in South Africa, 20.2% by Africans, 44% by Whites, 9.3% by coloured people, and 25.33% is owned by the state.

Malema says the land of South Africa must be owned equally by the people of South Africa.

“So 90% [of the population] must own 90% of the land and 10% must own 10%,” says Du Plessis.

“If you are good on percentages you must go by those percentages,” Malema says. He would prefer not to talk about percentages.

Malema says things are changing all the time in the country. “It’s only change that is not changing.”

More laughter from the gallery and Du Plessis becomes irate. He says somebody should take a visual of those who are laughing and ask those people to leave. Bit like an inexperienced teacher.

11:53:44 am - Thu 21 Apr

“Do you know who Lenin was?” ask Du Plessis.

Malema responds “No.”

Du Plessis getting pedantic now, banging on about communism, “the means of production” and the policy of the Youth League.

Malema appears to be making notes as Du Plessis clarifies what he believes to be Malema’s views on land ownership and redistribution. He’s leaning his head on his hand again, appears bored.

Malema says the ideals to which people who perpetuate colonialism must be targetted.

Du Plessis says, does this not mean the person who holds those ideas must be targetted.

Malema clarifies, their views must be changed.

Du Plessis asks if the ANC has any scientific figures about land ownership.

“Yep”, says Malema, “we got it from the department of agriculture.” Only 7% of land was transferred to the people.

11:49:19 am - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis puts it to Malema that he actually supports communism, because he believes that the “means of production” should be in the hands of the citizenry.

Malema says he prefers to think of it as a “national democratic revolution”.

Du Plessis now questioning Malema about the meaning of the word revolution, saying that the definition of revolution is a violent change of government.

Malema says his definition is “a transfer of power from minority to majority in a manner that is democratic”. He denies that he stands for communism.

Malema tries to avoid the line of questioning saying that Du Plessis had earlier asked him not to talk politics in court. The gallery cracks up once again and Lamont calls for calm.

Du Plessis complains about the gallery’s behaviour.

As Malema tries to respond to Du Plessis’s question,  Du Plessis interrupts. Malema retorts. Lamont intercedes to tell them to get on with it.

11:44:29 am - Thu 21 Apr

Du Plessis jumps straight in and asks about Malema’s claim that he is a “child soldier” for the ANC. He goes on to say that recruiting young children to fight in wars is typical in Africa. Maleka objects.

Malema says he would prefer the term “young pioneer” and agrees that he was taught to shoot and would have done so if necessary.

11:42:59 am - Thu 21 Apr

Having spoken with his clients during the tea break, Brassey says AfriForum has indicated that it is willing and happy to engage in dialogue but this would not be a substitte to any decision that might come out of the court case.

Brassey says his client will not abandon this case to engage in dialogue but that dialogue will take place alongside any ruling from the court.

“So I should reserve [judgment] into eternity?” asks Lamont.

Brassey says no, this could take place in the next two weeks.

Tau-SA’s Roelof du Plessis says he will complete his cross-examination today and that Tau-SA will also participate in any dialogue with Malema and the Youth League alongside the proceedings of the case.

11:39:01 am - Thu 21 Apr

This case has been more of a mediation than anything else. Lamont yesterday implied that a settlement would be better than a court order and did so again today shortly before he adjourned for tea. I’m sure many would kill to hear the discussions going on between the parties right now. It seems like a common sense approach — an out of court settlement — may prevail after all. Too bad we had to go through the whole rigmarole at court just to come to the conclusion that better dialogue between the aggrieved parties might just resolve this issue. At least it has made for good national drama.

Here comes the judge. Malema is now also back on the stand.

11:23:42 am - Thu 21 Apr

Fifteen minute breather before Tau-SA’s Roelof du Plessis SC takes over to question Malema.

Meanwhile, read my piece from yesterday about the case so far.

11:17:31 am - Thu 21 Apr

Some back and forth between Brassey and Lamont asking whether they should not consider further dialogue. Brassey says he will discuss the issue with his colleagues.

Brassey says he’s about to wrap up his cross-examination and that the Transvaal Agricultural Union (Tau-SA) has indicated there should be enough time for them to do their cross examination as well. They feel the trial may wrap up today.

The judge adjourns for tea. Back at 11:30.

11:14:30 am - Thu 21 Apr

Malema now providing a mini-history lesson about the engagement between the ANC and the apartheid regime towards the end of the struggle, saying that the ANC lay down their arms, without any preconditions.

He says that if we can engage in a similar way on this issue, we can solve the matter without the need for court intervention. “Let’s talk and lets not put conditions,” he says.

Brassey says that an out-of-court settlement would be Malema’s preferred route on this matter.

Vincent Maleka, Malema’s advocate, says that when Ernst Roets gave evidence he said that he does not believe in dialogue and that dialogue cannot take place when farmers are dying out there.

Maleka challenges the judge to go back into the evidence and relook at what Roets said during his testimony.

11:08:39 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey stumbles over the pronounciation of Dubula iBhuna.

He refers to a report by Ernst Roets that Malema has said that he would sing other struggle songs, or merely dance to the song while other people sing the song. Malema denies this.

Brassey then asks about comments that AfriForum youth made saying that when they said they would march on Shell House, Malema threatened them, saying to remember what happened to the IFP when they protested at Shell House.

Malema is adamant this never happened. “I’ve never mentioned Shell House.”

“We had a very good meeting. There was no point where there was any confrontation … We shaked [sic] hands and that’s it.” Malema says.

Malema says that when AfriForum youth said they wanted to march, the ANC Youth League said that would not be acceptable.

11:01:55 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey now speaking about an article in which Cosatu’s Patrick Craven is quoted as saying Cosatu is politically opposed to the hate speech of Malema. Malema says that Cosatu and it’s affiliates have agreed that the matter does not belong in court.

Asked about the ANC’s position, Malema says that the ANC’s position is that “we must have the sense of occassion” and not play into the hands of the right-wingers.

Malema says the fees of the case are being paid by the ANC because it’s a matter that’s important to them.

Brassey then asks whether the ANC is also paying for his security guards but Malema says he’s not going to comment on that issue.

10:57:00 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey goes through a list of people who have registered concerns with Malema’s singing of the song, from the DA, to FW De Klerk, to a member of the Youth League.

Malema says he’s never heard of this particular Youth League member or his complaint. “We don’t know Mr Matlala,” he says.

“He’s a member of the executive committee,” says Lamont, he goes on, the DH committee.

Malema frowns. “It’s DA,” he says. “I don’t know DA.”

The gallery cracks up and Brassey says that was nicely played for the gallery.

Brassey explains this member is from the DH Mabuya branch of the ANC Youth League in Wattville, Ekhuruleni. Malema maintains that he does not know this person and has not heard of this complaint.

“So maybe a puppet was put there, is that what you’re saying?” asks Lamont. Malema agrees.

10:49:06 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey asks Malema how he feels that a significant number of people have supported AfriForum’s case.

Malema says there’s no way to verify those numbers, that it could be AfriForum’s youth leader Ernst Roets sending a series of emails himself, pretending to be different people. Malema makes exaggerated typing motions and the gallery titters.

Lamont says there are a significant number of people — 45 000 — who are willing to pay for AfriForum’s litigation.

But Malema says there’s no way to prove that those numbers are true, rather than a few people who are trying to campaign and sending in multiple donations under different names.

10:43:54 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey now refers to a poll done by TNS media services, which found that three-quarters of metro adults feel the song containing the lyrics “kill the boer” constitutes hate speech.

Malema’s lawyer objects as the poll was never entered into the record by a witness but that it was “slipped into the record” and as such Malema cannot be cross-examined on it.

Lamont says he’s concerned that the poll referred to the words “kill the boer,” which is not accurate as the lyrics are actually “shoot the boer”.

Malema says he does not believe in surveys. According to surveys President Zuma would never have been elected and the youth of South Africa are politically apathetic.

“I’m a foot-soldier, I believe in working on the ground … not in some thumbsucked numbers,” says Malema.

Brassey gets Malema to admit that he does not believe the survey is accurate and drops the matter.

10:38:16 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey says Malema has no sense of the power that he enjoys and that he takes no responsibility for the things he says.

He puts it to Malema that he says “almost anything that comes into your head.”

Malema responds: “You are entitled to that comment. It will remain yours.”

Brassey says that at times the elders in the ANC have had to step in following comments made by the youth.

Malema says the elders in the ANC are there to whip us into line and Brassey says “We are deeply indebted to the elders.”

Malema now shifting uncomfortably in his seat. Whether because of the uncomfortable seat in the dock or the questioning is unclear.

10:34:34 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey asks if the judiciary is one of the forces Malema wishes to mobilise against.

Malema says there are forces influencing the judiciary and that’s who the ANC Youth League wants to mobilise against.

Brassey asks how the judiciary is untransformed.

Malema says there judges who are trying to use progressive laws to reduce the gains of democratic society, judges who subscribe to the old system and judges who dont believe in this democratic government.He adds that there are people in the judiciary who are working very hard to undremine the democratic government.

Brassey: “How do you know this?”

Malema: “I know this from a political point of view.”

Brassey: “I know you know that from a political point of view. Politics is apparently everything. Except race.”

Brassey asks what about the judge in this case and Malema says the lordship in this case has been very democratic. After a few more flattering remarks about Lamont from Brassey and Malema, the judge asks them to move on.

They move on to how Malema feels by not being able to sing the song. He’s barely started on his explanation and then the lights go out in court.

10:28:00 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey moves on to issues concerning the transformation of the judiciary.

He questions Malema on commends he’s made in the past, saying that judges can be influenced “by any other person” and by “dark forces who operate at night”.

Brassey asks who these dark forces may be, and Malema responds “For as long as dark forces operate at night, they are faceless.”

Brassey presses him. “Who are they?”

“Why do you want me to name them?” asks Malema.

10:23:44 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey asks Malema, when he sings the song containing the lyrics Dubhula iBhunu, who it is that Malema is calling for people to mobilise against.

“What is your question?” asks Malema.

Brassey admonishes him: “You really need to listen to my questions.”

Malema says he calls for mobilisation against those who still believe in the apartheid system, and those who are perpetuating and continuing apartheid.

“What about capitalists?” asks Brassey.

“If capitalists are perpetuating apartheid, they will also be mobilised against,” Malema responds.

10:19:40 am - Thu 21 Apr

Brassey moves on to issues concerning nationalisation and land redistribution.

Malema says that as it is now, government’s policy on land redistribution is “willing buyer, willing seller”. “We need a more radical policy,” he says.

Brassey clarifies that this more radical approach would include land distribution without compensation.

“The land will be shared amongst the people who work on it,” says Malema.

Brassey says the land will be taken from people who currently work, till and develop it and given to some people who do not.

“The land should be shared amongst all South Africans,” says Malema. He later clarifies, “amongst those who work it”.

Brassey accuses Malema of failing to answer the question and puts it to Malema that the land will be taken from white people and given to black people.

“That’s not what the [Freedom] Charter says,” according to Malema.

“No, that’s what  you say,” says Brassey.

“The revolution seeks to transfer power from the minority to the majority,” Malema says.

Brassey says the ANC Youth League’s policy is controversial, to which Malema responds, “Then the Freedom Charter is controversial.

Brassey has not yet made clear the links between issues of nationalisation and land redistribution and the singing of the song.

10:13:16 am - Thu 21 Apr

Malema is pensive this morning, leaning his face on one hand in the doc, as he is to be cross-examined.

AfriForum lawyer Martin Brassey tries to get an idea of the size of the crowds Malema addressed on the occassions when he sang the song.

Judge Collin Lamont explains that the court is trying to gt an idea of how big the meetings were.

Malema says the meetings were held in small community halls, except for the UJ meeting, and that there were about 500 to 1000 people at the meetings.

Brassey says that the press reported only about 250 people at the UJ meeting. But Malema says the press underestimates every event of the ANC. If the press says there were 250 people at an event, there were about 1 000 1500.

6:18:50 pm - Wed 20 Apr

ANC Youth League leader Julius Malema took the stand on Wednesday in the hate speech case brought against him by Afrikaaner interest group AfriForum. Prior to his taking the stand, Minister in the Presidency Collins Chabane, poet Wally Serote and ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe also gave evidence in the case.

Malema was hauled before the court for singing a struggle song containing the lyrics “dubul’ ibhunu“, or “shoot the boer” in public and in violation of a high court interdict that sought to prevent him from doing so.

On his first day, Malema laid out his opinions — that when he sings “shoot the boer” it means to fight a political system and to defeat the people who still believe in apartheid.

The exchanges between the main players in the trial — Martin Brassey, the lawyer acting for AfriForum, Roelof du Plessis acting for the Transvaal Agricultural Union (Tau-SA), Judge Collin Lammont, and Malema — have alternated between measured, sarcastic and outright hostile.

At one point Brassey told Malema that if he agreed not to sing on public platform in way that excites people, “we’ll all go home”. Malema responded “A shower is not a political gathering, I must sing in public.”

Brassey also pointed out that Malema has influence and “a mandate”. “That’s the issue, that’s why it’s frightening. If I sang it no one would mind,” he said. But Malema retorted “I doubt you can sing.”

With these types of exchanges flying back and forth, observers in the public gallery could hardly be blamed for breaking out into laughter. But this was not taken well by the court. Malema’s lawyer Vincent Maleka said that he was considering asking for the gallery to be cleared but Lamont said this was not an option. Instead he asked, not for the first time, that the public control itself.

After more heated exchanges and some strong language the court adjourned for the day. Malema will take the stand again on Thursday.